Comments on: So long and thanks for all the fish http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/ eat. play. love. Wed, 23 May 2012 18:40:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jenniferquijano24 http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-16255 Jenniferquijano24 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:54:00 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-16255 i wish i could see one i wish i could see one

]]> By: Leigh http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4228 Leigh Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:03:14 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4228 SO TRUE about social culture. One of the whales in San Diego, Ulysses, was raised in Barcelona Spain with two dolphins. Before he came here here had no idea there were other whales like him, and he didn't know that he wasn't a dolphin! In studying orca communication, they realized that Ulysses NEVER "speaks" orca, but he "speaks" like a dolphin all the time. They were also studying whether two of the baby orcas (born within a year of each other) would ever learn to "speak" dolphin from him. SO TRUE about social culture. One of the whales in San Diego, Ulysses, was raised in Barcelona Spain with two dolphins. Before he came here here had no idea there were other whales like him, and he didn’t know that he wasn’t a dolphin! In studying orca communication, they realized that Ulysses NEVER “speaks” orca, but he “speaks” like a dolphin all the time. They were also studying whether two of the baby orcas (born within a year of each other) would ever learn to “speak” dolphin from him.

]]> By: elephant http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4215 elephant Tue, 02 Mar 2010 06:54:58 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4215 It's really an unexcusably bad situation. If we don't breed them in captivity, and we don't euthanize them (which is an unthinkable option - though yes, there were loud calls across the net for the euthanization of this particular orca last week), and we don't capture more (which we've theoretically stopped but only theoretically from what I've heard), than these majestic, intelligent, deeply social animals are indeed going to eventually die, one by one, in solitary confinement, as each marine park slowly loses it's animals. And if we continue to breed them, we're continuing a truly inexcusable institution. And so far, our one experiment with wild release was a dismal failure. Well, of course it was. Let's go back to the highly intelligent social animal thing. Highly intelligent social animals have rules and social norms which govern their behaviors. They have cultures. "Willy" (Keiko) didn't know those rules. He had no social tools for walking up to a pod of orcas in an orca bar and saying "hey, can I spot you a fish?" What about playground etiquette has ever taught us that the "wierd kid" is going to be picked up and made part of the pack? These aren't animals that do well alone. He needed company, and the only company he knew how to find was human. If releasing captive orcas is ever going to work, it's going to have to be done, at the least, in breeding pairs. Better as pods. But that will take the will of the people, saying - no more. This was wrong. We apologize. And it will take millions and millions of dollars, and many years, to put those whales back in the wild. If, if, if it can be done. It’s really an unexcusably bad situation. If we don’t breed them in captivity, and we don’t euthanize them (which is an unthinkable option – though yes, there were loud calls across the net for the euthanization of this particular orca last week), and we don’t capture more (which we’ve theoretically stopped but only theoretically from what I’ve heard), than these majestic, intelligent, deeply social animals are indeed going to eventually die, one by one, in solitary confinement, as each marine park slowly loses it’s animals.

And if we continue to breed them, we’re continuing a truly inexcusable institution. And so far, our one experiment with wild release was a dismal failure.

Well, of course it was. Let’s go back to the highly intelligent social animal thing. Highly intelligent social animals have rules and social norms which govern their behaviors. They have cultures. “Willy” (Keiko) didn’t know those rules. He had no social tools for walking up to a pod of orcas in an orca bar and saying “hey, can I spot you a fish?” What about playground etiquette has ever taught us that the “wierd kid” is going to be picked up and made part of the pack?

These aren’t animals that do well alone. He needed company, and the only company he knew how to find was human.

If releasing captive orcas is ever going to work, it’s going to have to be done, at the least, in breeding pairs. Better as pods.

But that will take the will of the people, saying – no more. This was wrong. We apologize. And it will take millions and millions of dollars, and many years, to put those whales back in the wild. If, if, if it can be done.

]]> By: Tricia http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4210 Tricia Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:22:43 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4210 i just found your blog, and love it. i agree completely with your opinion on animals in captivity. after you deal with your daughter's school, please proceed to educate the remaining schools around the USA. they need it. wild animals are just that, meant to be "wild." give 'em hell and your daughter will thank you when she is old enough to appreciate it. aren't they embarassed of everything we do regardless of what it is -- she will at least appreciate your cause when she is an adult and be thankful for your efforts and appreciate that you took a stand for what you believed in. i just found your blog, and love it. i agree completely with your opinion on animals in captivity. after you deal with your daughter’s school, please proceed to educate the remaining schools around the USA. they need it. wild animals are just that, meant to be “wild.” give ‘em hell and your daughter will thank you when she is old enough to appreciate it. aren’t they embarassed of everything we do regardless of what it is — she will at least appreciate your cause when she is an adult and be thankful for your efforts and appreciate that you took a stand for what you believed in.

]]> By: Dr. V http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4202 Dr. V Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:26:04 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4202 I would love to hear more of your thoughts. I would love to hear more of your thoughts.

]]> By: elephant http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4197 elephant Mon, 01 Mar 2010 06:41:03 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4197 I spent a couple sleepless hours mentally writing time limit laws to phase out marine mammal shows, and then building multiple square mile temporary training enclosures in Norwegian fjords, and then releasing pods ( pod = group that works well together from 1 Sea World or similar park) into the training enclosures, using their old training techniques to train them in pack hunting techniques, and releasing each pod within 1-3 years from the enclosure into the wild. And then another hour wondering what unlooked for repercussions that would have on the remaining wild orcas. I spent a couple sleepless hours mentally writing time limit laws to phase out marine mammal shows, and then building multiple square mile temporary training enclosures in Norwegian fjords, and then releasing pods ( pod = group that works well together from 1 Sea World or similar park) into the training enclosures, using their old training techniques to train them in pack hunting techniques, and releasing each pod within 1-3 years from the enclosure into the wild.

And then another hour wondering what unlooked for repercussions that would have on the remaining wild orcas.

]]> By: elephant http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4196 elephant Mon, 01 Mar 2010 06:36:29 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4196 Seattle. Unbelievable. Seattle. Unbelievable.

]]> By: elephant http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4195 elephant Mon, 01 Mar 2010 06:26:49 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4195 Sorry, really, my typing AND my grammar, all shot to hell tonight. Way overtired. Sorry, really, my typing AND my grammar, all shot to hell tonight. Way overtired.

]]> By: elephant http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4194 elephant Mon, 01 Mar 2010 06:26:18 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4194 No, why no, they weren't. In fact, last time I lived in SD, they were owned by Anheiser-Busch. Yeah. The beer company. And were bringing in "rescued" marine mammals from Europe who were paid to capture them so they would need rescueing. No, why no, they weren’t. In fact, last time I lived in SD, they were owned by Anheiser-Busch. Yeah. The beer company. And were bringing in “rescued” marine mammals from Europe who were paid to capture them so they would need rescueing.

]]> By: Leigh http://pawcurious.com/2010/02/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/#comment-4163 Leigh Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:35:29 +0000 http://www.pawcurious.com/?p=3320#comment-4163 As I have grown up in San Diego, I used to be a huge fan of Sea World. In the 80's-90's they focused a lot on education and the well-being of the animals. Then when they began building amusement-park rides (river rafts and roller-coasters) their focus went away from educational animal shows and well-being of the animals... that's when I lost my respect for them. However... I wouldn't say that their captive orca programs have in NO WAY benefited wild orcas. They have invented infant 'formula' for a variety of marine mammal species for when they are rescued and are too young to eat fish. I don't know this for sure, but I bet that they have created orca formula for those in their breeding program whose mothers are not attentive. Also, the researchers at Hubbs have been studying orca communication and language acquisition in newborns for years. I think there is plenty to learn from captive animals that can be transfered to wild populations, as long as the animals are kept with the highest care, large enclousures, and are mentally stimulated. As I have grown up in San Diego, I used to be a huge fan of Sea World. In the 80′s-90′s they focused a lot on education and the well-being of the animals. Then when they began building amusement-park rides (river rafts and roller-coasters) their focus went away from educational animal shows and well-being of the animals… that’s when I lost my respect for them.

However… I wouldn’t say that their captive orca programs have in NO WAY benefited wild orcas. They have invented infant ‘formula’ for a variety of marine mammal species for when they are rescued and are too young to eat fish. I don’t know this for sure, but I bet that they have created orca formula for those in their breeding program whose mothers are not attentive.

Also, the researchers at Hubbs have been studying orca communication and language acquisition in newborns for years.
I think there is plenty to learn from captive animals that can be transfered to wild populations, as long as the animals are kept with the highest care, large enclousures, and are mentally stimulated.

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